Long time stalker of this site, first time poster. I wasn't originally going to join, but I'm just so damn mad at people who insist on crapping all over Keanu that I have to let it all out somewhere, haha.

Not sure if you guys have picked up on it yet, but there's big backlash at Keanu playing a "white saviour" role in 47 Ronin. I totally understand how problematic the film is in some ways (one being that Keanu has been cast as half white/half Japanese, and Asian heritages should not be interchangeable) , and I totally get where people are coming from. However the majority of people are painting Keanu as white - which he is far from. I'm in the middle of an argument with someone on tumblr at the moment who insists because Keanu "looks white", his culture and heritage don't matter. Which is absolute tosh, considering Keanu's problems he had even getting roles in the first place in Hollywood because of his looks.

I just....ARGH. Why do people want to hate this man? Why why why. Why do they want to stab him at every chance they get? It makes me really mad. This is a great first thread, I know haha.

Anyway, I'm also an illustrator - http://www.youngearlgrey.com

and my little tumblr for other things is - www.lovewillneverdo.tumblr.com

I'm Rhea, I'm 22 and I'm from Sydney, Australia. Hi everyone!

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Half of the locations of the Matrix are on my route to and from work

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... you lucky thing ;) :)
welcome to our Zion ;)

in my personal opinion... it can be explained by two tendencies. Most of those people would have bashed anyone who got that role; Keanu just happened to be in the way. And since it is him, the usual/generally agreed upon prejudice against Keanu Reeves adds to it all. Some bash him because they can, cowardly hidden behind some smart-arse username on some forum. Some take the whole thing personally. But whatever the motivation is... people just can't ignore Keanu. The reactions were always polarized, but are always there...
There's something about him that makes people notice. And some can't forgive him for that ;)

I'm also unsettled by how little research most people seem to have done. Aside from the assumption that Keanu is white (and/or erasing his racial identity, which is just... wrong), people also seem to have the idea that the character was written after Keanu got involved, and made half-white just so they could cast him, thus robbing an actual Japanese actor of the role. Which is not the case: the original character was already half-white to begin with, and not written for Keanu (physical description does not match, plus the guy was supposed to be in his 20s).

So what most people seem to think happened is:
1) a bunch of white guys in Hollywood sat down one day and thought "this is a cool Japanese legend, let's make a movie out of it!"
2) they thought, "but nah, no one will watch a movie with just Japanese people. Hey, let's insert a white guy and make him the hero and get him to save the day because the Japanese characters are too incompetent! That way we can cast a famous white actor for box office appeal! Like that Matrix dude, we like him. Also dragons. There must be dragons. Dragons are cool. Historical accuracy, pfft."
3) Keanu thought, "I get to save the world again? And do a love scene with an exotic Japanese woman in an exotic Japanese history story thing? Awesome!"
4) Meanwhile, Japanese actors got excited upon hearing about the movie and how they might finally - after being repeatedly turned down in favour of white actors or prevented from auditioning for the 90% white characters in Hollywood movies - have a clear shot at playing a protagonist in an important story from their culture, only to discover that nope, they're looking for a white guy again, even for this.

and if that had happened I would be just as pissed off, so I sort of understand where they're coming from.

But what actually happened is:
1) a sole white guy fascinated with Japanese history decided to write a script about one of its legends. for reasons somewhat racist and probably related to wanting to be part of the story, he decided to stick in a young half-white character where there had previously been none, explore some of his (historically accurate) identity struggles living as a halfbreed in ancient Japan, and have him accompany the Japanese characters and watch them as an outsider. the script actually wasn't as bad as I thought it might be.
2) a bunch of white guys in Hollywood thought it was a nice script, but that it could do with more dragons and more focus on the half-white protagonist. (this judgement is based on the trailer and the reshoots; it might not be the case.)
3) they searched around for Eurasian actors, discovered Keanu was interested, and cast him.

So... still far from perfect, but not so much the huge pile of fail that most people seem to think it is. And this time, I don't think it's about Keanu, either - as taifunu said, any other non-Japanese actor cast in the role would have received the same flak. (why is it always the actors, though. :( the casting directors and producers are usually far more responsible. actors are just easy targets I guess.) and, contrary to taifunu, I think that him being Keanu actually helped a little in this case, because it's a largely female crowd (as opposed to the usual male crowd) doing the criticism, many of whom do mention that they are fans, and are reacting to this more out of disappointment than wanting more reason to bash Keanu. not all, definitely, but I've seen a few.

Are you on tumblr? I would love to see what you wrote in a post, it might help to quell some of these ridiculous arguments people are making. I've seen Keanu called "the whitest of the whites" and it just makes my blood boil. To completely discredit the kind of things he had to go through to even GET roles in Hollywood.....man, that's not cool. I've only seen people mention his name change (KC Reeves), but never the "ethnic feedback" thing, which I think is just as important. I've also seen people bring up the fact that he's "really" 1/8 Chinese, 1/8 Hawaiian as if that's not "enough" to be biracial. All you have to do is look at Keanu to see that he's mixed!

Edit: I forgot to actually tell a little bit more about myself, how rude of me!

I'm a big Michael Jackson fan (now there is a fandom you do NOT want to be part of!), I also adore Janet Jackson, Prince, Van Halen and generally nostalgia from my childhood and the decade just before it. I'm also juuuust easing myself back into hockey skating, because funnily enough, watching Youngblood - as bad as it was - inspired me to properly take up hockey after wanting to play for a good ten years. I'm moving to New Jersey to live with a friend in January, so I'm hoping to join an amateur league!

Thanks everyone for being so friendly and welcoming! I'm a total newcomer to Keanu; Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure was my favourite film as a kid, and about a month ago I bought it on dvd and fell in love with it all over again. Since then I've been watching whatever Keanu movies I can find. I think at the moment, Teenage Dream/Flying is one of my favourites (as bad as it is), as well as Generation Um which I just feel is a masterpiece. I watched Hardball the other day and I still haven't finished it....ha!

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I've seen Keanu called "the whitest of the whites" and it just makes my blood boil.

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I've also seen people bring up the fact that he's "really" 1/8 Chinese, 1/8 Hawaiian as if that's not "enough" to be biracial. All you have to do is look at Keanu to see that he's mixed!

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Although perception of his race seems to be objective; there are people who say that they honestly can't tell that he's mixed, and that he looks all white to them. It could be an exposure thing, where those who grew up without much interaction with Asian and Eurasian people are less able to recognise them than those who did.

My Tumblr is http://anivad42.tumblr.com. I run a Michael J. Fox fanblog and reblogged that art piece you did. Back to the Future is my favourite movie ever. You have good taste. :D

I haven't written anything on 47 Ronin there, though, despite being tempted. I've made a resolution to stop getting involved in Tumblr social justice discussions, because:
1) it almost always makes me angry and upset at everything and I don't like it when I'm angry and upset
2) it's a very ineffective platform for discussions, because things that are said get lost very quickly
3) things can get very ugly very fast (people spammed with death threats, IRL stalkers, etc). Tumblr seems to be an outlet for a lot of hurting people to vent, and while that's useful for me sometimes, at other times it's just a toxic atmosphere.
4) miscommunication happens very easily and often, and spirals off into long strings of horror in which people start violently bashing me for things I never even said or meant (in some cases, when I meant the exact opposite, but all it takes is for one person to miss the 'not' in a description and it's all downhill from there). At other times I was wrong about something, but criticised way out of proportion for my error despite apologies.
5) basically, I've had lots of bad experiences there in the past. >_> like, lots. lots. and then I go cry to LucaM.

I've been doing some Keanu-defending over at Reddit, though, which is a little more conducive for discussions.

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I think at the moment, Teenage Dream/Flying is one of my favourites (as bad as it is)

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Do you know about the Bill & Ted musical? -> http://billandted.org/musicalhome.htm

The script and music are awesome. I have most of the soundtrack on my computer, and know the words to an embarrassing number of the songs.

Conor from Hardball is secretly my favourite Keanuspawn. I have written much fanfic about his fail.

to end off, here's an art piece from a artist I've since forgotten:

I have heard of the Bill and Ted musical, but didn't realise there was actually audio online! I will have to investigate this. I've been watching the Halloween specials from Universal Studios, and while they're not entirely faithful to the characters, I really enjoy watching their incarnation of Bill and Ted interacting with other pop culture characters. There's something about it that just works!

Anyway, back to Keanu....

I've noticed too that pre-Hollywood, Keanu was pretty tan. I'm not gonna get into personal details because that's not fair on him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he kept himself out of the sun after the whole "ethnic feedback" thing. I just feel for him so much in the wake of this 47 Ronin stuff; what a total kick in the butt to be told originally that he was too different looking to make it in films, and now that he's white! I mean it's so much more complex than that (as we've been talking about), but just that fundamental thing is what gets me.

I've already gotten into an argument with some people on tumblr about it, both of which appear to be American girls with giant KPOP fascinations. I don't want to judge (and yet I'm doing so right now, ha), but it's just hard to see these people so blatantly casting off Keanu because he obviously doesn't fit their narrow-minded view of what biracial looks like.

On a different note, as much as I struggled through Hardball, I really was impressed with Keanu's accent and the way he got into his character. It was so far removed from his usual self, and I totally believed that Conor was a scumbag, haha!

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I went through a HUGE Michael J Fox obsession when I was about 13; you didn't happen to be around on the internet back in about 2004ish, did you?

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I was on the internet since 2002ish. I spent a lot of time at bttf.com, but it's not the same anymore. Michael J. Fox database? I don't think they have/had a forum though: http://www.michaeljfoxdatabase.com

Have you seen danita-sonser's art? She's done these amazingly life-like MJF portraits: http://danita-sonser.deviantart.com/gallery/

also! HAVE YOU WATCHED THE FRIGHTENERS. :D
Frank Bannister is my favourite MJF character. he's possibly my favourite character ever, actually.

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It's influenced me in so many ways in terms of my own art. I was planning on doing a crossover drawing with Bill and Ted too

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me, I just do crossover fan fiction. :| http://www.whoaisnotme.net/anakinmcfly/rw.htm

From what I've read (though I might be wrong), I don't think Keanu was that personally affected by the racism, though, but experienced it as more of an external thing that he was completely baffled by and just shrugged off as people being strange and not excellent to each other. In 2008 he talked about how he'd grown up in a very racially diverse environments (going from Hawaii to Sydney to New York) where he was glad to have never experienced prejudice, such that when he first encountered it in high school (he didn't specify whether it was directed at him, or just others) he just didn't get it. "Racism is weird," he said. Back when he was getting the 'ethnic feedback', he also seemed a lot less concerned than his agent/managers were, for a long time refusing to change his name because he didn't understand why it was a problem.

I'm having a similar experience at the moment - I'm Chinese and grew up in a country where I was part of the majority race and completely validated in that sense, and now in New York I'm not, such that whenever I encounter racism against me it's just... weird, and annoying, perhaps upsetting if more severe. But it's not something taken to heart and I forget about it pretty quick, as opposed to the local Chinese people here, for whom the same things are much more of a sore point. Upbringing really makes a huge difference: if you grow up being constantly told that X thing about you makes you less of a person, hearing that message reinforced by others makes you more likely to believe them, and it hurts a lot more. But if you grew up told that there was nothing wrong with being X, when you encounter messages that say otherwise you're much less likely to believe them and be affected, and instead react similarly to if that person were saying something obviously false, like "apples are secretly giraffes in disguise".

So in Keanu's case - while the racism existed and was directed against him and made his life inconvenient, I don't think it was something that affected him that personally to the point of altering his behaviour. Pre-Hollywood he was fresh from Hawaii, which is a very sunny place and easy to get tan in, and then moving to Toronto where it's freezing would have made him a lot paler; later when he was moving around the US there were periods where he got more tan again. Regarding the 47 Ronin backlash, I think if he is affected, it would have more to do with people assuming he's some white guy exoticising Asia, given that - when it comes to China at least - he's genuinely, deeply interested in a lot of its culture and history. Which isn't really relevant because he doesn't do the same extent with Japan, but it at least shows that Keanu isn't the sort of exoticise things. He goes in-depth and really studies them.

conor is awesome
this is the Conor O'Neill appreciation thread: http://www.whoaisnotme.net/forums/view.php?threadid=60

I used to be a member on BTTF.com too! I think I was "itsabouttime" or something like that. This was just around when the trilogy first got released on dvd in a box set, I think.

MJFdatabase is probably what I was thinking of, but I do remember being a member on a MJF forum somewhere too. And I remember Danita's artwork very well! I used to try to draw like her, haha.

Oh man, there is so much I don't know about Mr Reeves. I had no idea he actually spent some time in Hawaii? And I think you're right on the racism thing, it doesn't seem to effect him on a personal level. I think I felt for him because while I'm pretty much totally white, my mum has always had people directing cruel words towards her in terms of her look, especially more so her sister. Our background is Portuguese/Jewish/Irish, and the only thing I really got was the curly/dense hair. My mum has more olive-toned skin, and my dad actually thought she was Australian-Aboriginal when they first started dating! So maybe I'm just projecting my personal feelings onto the whole thing, which isn't exactly the best thing to do.

I also tried to mention Keanu's recent trip to China and his extensive work on Man of Tai Chi, but people on tumblr are so involved in their notion of him that they wouldn't listen. I agree, it doesn't excuse the problems of 47 Ronin and Japanese culture, but at least it shows that he's made an effort elsewhere in a similar situation.

Oooh, a Conor appreciation thread. I must investigate!

If Klaatu had seen tumblr... he would't have bothered to get shot in Central Park. :(

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I'm a big Michael Jackson fan (now there is a fandom you do NOT want to be part of!)

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Everything is just so different now. The negativity that pours out of the fandom is awful. I actually had to distance myself because it was effecting me personally, the way some fans spoke about his family and even Michael himself. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about!

So it's a relief to come into the Keanu fandom where everyone seems a lot more laid back and chilled out, haha. Not so much jealousy and crap being thrown around!

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So it's a relief to come into the Keanu fandom where everyone seems a lot more laid back and chilled out, haha. Not so much jealousy and crap being thrown around!

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oh, the naivety ! :D
... you'll see.
no, not here.

I was never a part of the online MJ fandom, and I guess that spared me a lot of... many things. I'm a dinosaur :D But I do read articles every now and then and...it's just a circus, and it's sad to watch :(

Edit: Quick question guys, does anybody have this photo or any of the others from the same shoot in a good size?

There are alot of online communities out there that are FULL of negativity. if people do their job, (such as moderators or even just people in general it should stop) Too much bullying online these days, it's sad :(

Blue - Fandoms have their good sides, and their bad sides....some are definitely more chilled out than others, haha! In the Van Halen fandom, the most angry people get is over which singer they prefer. Or why Eddie doesn't play like he's 22 anymore.

I totally agree, there are ones that are so full of negativity that it gets too hard to even participate. Pretty much why I ended up leaving the MJ fandom!

Anakin if you're out there - thank you so much for that post you made on tumblr just now. I think you tracked down the original post I was participating in and spewing all over, 'cause I was so mad haha!