I just keep thinking that I'd really like to have him for a friend. Amazing conversations. Challenging. Thoughtful.
Speaking for myself, I do have many of those people in my life, but it always appreciate that. It's a beautiful quality.

And Jack - isn't it strange? I've been thinking of great actors among us, but who has that level of subtlety, that measured emotion? It's relatively easy to portray big emotions. It is really difficult - easier on screen than on stage, to be sure - to show intimate emotions.

It is "Michael Corleone reluctantly accepts his destiny" but the difference between Mr Pacino (always Mr Pacino and never ever Al) playing that and Keanu playing that would be delicious for us as audience and delicious for Keanu the actor.

Yummy!

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I just keep thinking that I'd really like to have him for a friend. Amazing conversations. Challenging. Thoughtful.

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So. Much. This. KR is a beautiful man and my husband loves to tease me about my crush, but the fact is that KR is not on my "list." The only thing I want to do with him is have a nice long chat about his movies, his approach to acting, his memories of various roles...all preferably while watching Constantine, of course.

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that would be delicious for us as audience and delicious for Keanu the actor.

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Not sure if this is what you meant but one of the undeniable aspects of rooting for John, even though you know he's bad, is that you...kind of want him to be in charge. I admit this was no small part of his appeal in the first movie. The guy was totally boss in everything, and it's a treat to see him that way. Plus, if we're fleshing this out a bit, Wick has leadership potential. He's left people alive when I didn't expect him to, which indicates a level of discernment and a trace of good from a previous self (tm LucaM) that could be useful qualities in the person at the head of the table.

But if he were conflicted about it, reluctant even - as Michael is - that would be compelling to me, or at least could be. If he was offered the position...I don't know...

Also, it's the opposite of the end of 2, and I'm not so sure about that.

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revenge would just be too big a motive

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Huh, I never considered that as a possible motive. I guess my thinking, fuzzy though it still is, was something along the lines of him supposing he could do some version of good, or make things some version of better - given, of course, that those are relative terms in his world.

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But if he were conflicted about it, reluctant even - as Michael is - that would be compelling to me, or at least could be.

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Yes, I can definitely see the appeal in that.

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I found it stunning that one second he's holding Gianna's hand with what I believed to be genuine sympathy and the next he's blowing a hole in her skull.

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Her way of 'giving the finger to the rules'.

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but I'm also kind of thinking he should die at the end of it.

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I saw it as a mercy killing - she was already dying, and this would spare her the suffering of slowly bleeding out. There may also have been the risk that his marker wouldn't have been deemed honoured if she had killed herself instead of him doing it, whereupon her death would have been for nothing.

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I mean, yeah, but she never would've slashed her wrists if he hadn't shown up. So still on him. As for your second point, I wondered if Cassian would notice the slit wrists when he came up and saw the body. Headshot or no, the cuts would make the sequence of events fairly obvious. I was surprised that wasn't more of a problem for John.

I've been wondering too if the dissonance between John's words and actions is entirely intentional on the writers' part. I'm not sure they've considered what a deeply unsympathetic character John actually is. Based on some interviews/articles I sometimes think they wanted to throw in the barest minimum of sympathy for John that would keep the audience engaged. They say he feels one way, but he always winds up doing something completely in opposition. The funny thing is that despite some lack of logic in the writing, I've found Keanu's portrayal completely believable at every turn and also a lot more internally coherent than some of the writing would indicate. E.g., his idea of "reclamation" from the first movie, which I think he might've stopped talking about in interviews after people couldn't understand what he meant. They wanted a simple revenge motif; he had something much darker (and more consistently logical) in mind. He adds layers to John that I'm not sure the writers ever intended, and the story makes more sense as a result.

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And then his dog goes on a revenge murder spree.

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I eagerly await your fanfic. :)

...c'mon, you know you want to...

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I mean, yeah, but she never would've slashed her wrists if he hadn't shown up.

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I'm not sure they've considered what a deeply unsympathetic character John actually is.

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It's a very functional thing with him, which is why he doesn't go spraying the crowds with bullets and occasionally spares the lives of even those who might deserve death. He has his own moral code he adheres to, and that lends to that complexity. But 'assassin with a heart of gold' doesn't quite describe it; his saving grace isn't his heart but his integrity.

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I eagerly await your fanfic. :)

...c'mon, you know you want to...

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his saving grace isn't his heart but his integrity

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Oohhh, I like that.

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his saving grace isn't his heart but his integrity.

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that. that. THAT.

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E.g., his idea of "reclamation" from the first movie, which I think he might've stopped talking about in interviews after people couldn't understand what he meant. They wanted a simple revenge motif; he had something much darker (and more consistently logical) in mind. He adds layers to John that I'm not sure the writers ever intended, and the story makes more sense as a result

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Make that 'most' people ;)
Keanu is a storyteller himself, and when he's allowed to get creatively involved... magic happens :)

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Keanu is a storyteller himself, and when he's allowed to get creatively involved... magic happens :)

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Yes! I'm a bit surprised he hasn't written something of his own by now, because he has much richer ideas and interpretations than what you typically see.

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Of course, this omits the reasoning what kind of sane normal guy would become an assassin in the first place.

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Exactly. I couldn't immediately reconcile how this fit with Ani's notion of John's individual moral code. What moral code justifies a career of taking lives for money, anyway? But then I realized I was imposing my morals on John, which won't work. If I leave that off, he makes sense.

This makes at least 4 groups of professionals - usually with high prestige - that have to justify death as part of the work they are paid for: nurses, doctors, policemen, soldiers.

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what he would have done to Gianna had she not done it to herself first.

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But then... it makes for a much better (visual) story...

The bath scene was Keanu's idea
"We had it a couple of different ways: it was in her mansion, her house, and something wasn't feeling right. We thought, 'how many times have you seen somebody in a room?' One day, Keanu's in our office, he's just got done working out, we're talking, and he says "I've got an idea. It's a little wacky. I'm not going to kill Gianna. She's gonna slit her wrists in a bath house. She's gonna strip. It's gonna be confusing. We'll put this tension in." He talked me through it and I thought, that's pretty hardcore. That's a little creepy. I couldn't get it out of my head. We started sketching, I called my production designer and said 'bear with me on this'. It fitted the Wick world – that's just the way these people live. I thought it was a good way to show another side of the mythology. It's supposed to be this world with its own set of rules."

http://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/john-wick-2-chad-stahelski/

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What he did anyway. Shoot her in the head.

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Right. I'm...not explaining myself well at all on that point. My last attempt: I only meant that I still consider John fully responsible for Gianna's death, just as much so as if he'd walked in and shot her immediately.

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"We'll put this tension in."

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They nailed that, for sure. You could see John was thrown off and disturbed by what she was doing, which made it more unsettling for the audience. Genius, that guy is.

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He talked me through it and I thought, that's pretty hardcore. That's a little creepy. I couldn't get it out of my head.

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And I can't get it out of mine. It's the scene I most frequently recall when I think about the movie.

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I still consider John fully responsible for Gianna's death

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Oh, he is. But in that world, it was either her death, or his. As Winston made it clear. John had to do what Santino asked, period, no ifs or buts or wait, I grew a conscience while living the civilian life. Had he refused, Santino would have had him killed, then found a way to kill Gianna anyway - only with a lot more bloodshed in the process.
Of course, John ends up a dead man walking anyway - but so much happened in between... and most important, Santino is now out of the picture forever.

And then there's that duality... John Wick killed Gianna to save John Wick's life, while John Wick killed Santino so John could honor Helen's love for him, and his for her... Both Gianna and Santino manipulate this duality of his.

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wait, I grew a conscience while living the civilian life

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Heh. Yeah, that definitely ain't John.

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John Wick killed Santino so John could honor Helen's love for him, and his for her

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I still love this notion as you espouse it, but I cannot think Helen would want John to kill anyone, for any reason, ever. When Gianna made that comment to John, I was thinking "Helen might have a substantially larger problem with John being a contract killer IN THE FIRST PLACE." I'm more divided than I was on why John killed Santino, but then maybe I'm not giving Helen or John enough credit.

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It was John who made it possible for Santino to get the 'seat', it was John who put it 'right'

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That, to me, makes perfect sense as a standalone argument for killing Santino, without reference to Helen. Not saying you're wrong about Helen as a motivating factor, just that I need to chew on it some more - which maybe I should do via another viewing. :) But, rolling with Wick's Way of Wisdom for a moment, I don't know that I need any other arguments except this one: Santino was a snot-nosed coward who planned to hide the rest of his life in comfort to escape the consequences of his actions. I was shocked when John did it, but I was also gratified.