Awesome. Thanks a lot! :)

BTW, I realize that this is getting a bit off-topic, but at the same time maybe not. Here I am, a returning fan, going through backup files on my ancient computer and finding stuff that I collected back then. I actually remember now that I transferred these files from an even older computer that I had in 1994, which is when I got on the Internet and made my first-ever homepage. I remember being a member of the Usenet forum alt.fan.keanu-reeves, until it was attacked by a couple of particularly vicious and persistent trolls. Then alt.fan.keanu-reeves.moderated was started, but most of the original forum's members didn't bother to join it. They were pretty fed up with the constant attacks, I guess.

At some point, I also lost track of all the Ke content on the Internet. New fansites and forums kept popping up everywhere, and the small community feeling or the first forums seemed to get lost as the Internet grew. Things became more impersonal as the global village turned into a veritable universe. I still miss the old days...

Some researchers have suggested that fan websites create a (sense of) community that transcends physical and geographical barriers. Fans are united in their fandom for their particular celebrity, thus creating a virtual community. I would say that the Keanu SWAT team is a good example of this.

I am curious. Where in the world are you? The bottom of the page says Singapore, so I'm guessing that Anakin, you're from Singapore? I'm writing from New Zealand. Where else is everyone from? That would be the best example of geographical distance. Have any of you met in person?

Inkjuldra, thank you for the history of the Keanu fan sites. I suppose Keanu has had fan groups (online or physical) since his first film (1985), or at least since Bill and Ted in 1989. Do you know of people who have been fans since then? There must be fans who have been following him for 20 years. They may have started when they were in (what we would now call) their tweens, and would be in their 30s. It would be interesting to find out some statistics on the continuity of fans.

*thinks about it*
*realises the enormity of that idea*
*forgets about it*
*shrugs shoulders*
Moving on...

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New fansites and forums kept popping up everywhere, and the small community feeling or the first forums seemed to get lost as the Internet grew. Things became more impersonal as the global village turned into a veritable universe.

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This is interesting. Would you say the online community became too unwieldy? Surely the sites such as this one have a community feeling? How big do the Keanu sites get for things to feel impersonal?

There is a continuation of theory that suggests that the religion of celebrity has taken over from religion of god (or whichever deity). The celebrity becomes an idol. The reason may be the alienation and isolation of modern society. We don't have that sense of community in the real world, so we find it online. Fansites could arguably be the place where people feel accepted, because they are talking with people who share the same point of view. It is a way of finding friendship and community based on common values whilst in the security of one's home on the computer.

That concept may sound dismissive, abrasive, or insultive of fan sites like this one - but please don't think it is. At least, it's not meant to be. It is just an academic idea on fandom.

What are your thoughts on these ideas? Celebrity as Idol; Fandom as Religion; Fansites as Community.

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Some researchers have suggested that fan websites create a (sense of) community that transcends physical and geographical barriers.

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I am curious. Where in the world are you? The bottom of the page says Singapore, so I'm guessing that Anakin, you're from Singapore? I'm writing from New Zealand. Where else is everyone from? That would be the best example of geographical distance. Have any of you met in person?

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(That thread is members only. For access: userid = winmguest, password = password)

As far as I know, none of us have met in person. Some people on the other sites have, though - Club-Keanu for one has a large percentage of Americans, and they have had several meetups before at movie premieres and such.

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Do you know of people who have been fans since then?

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Would you say the online community became too unwieldy? Surely the sites such as this one have a community feeling? How big do the Keanu sites get for things to feel impersonal?

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I think this site has a core membership of around 20 members, with about a hundred or so who drop by sporadically and lurk; we're one of the smallest Keanu fansites out there in terms of membership, possibly the smallest, which I like because we know each other better and can have better discussions as a result. KeanuWeb reportedly had 60,000 members before it shut down in April 2008 after 14 years. I don't know how accurate that figure is, though. Club-Keanu had a few thousand - less than 5k but more than 1k - before its server crash late last year, and now has about one or two thousand members, with about 40 in their core group (I think), and it's about the same at Keanu-Reeves.net.

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There is a continuation of theory that suggests that the religion of celebrity has taken over from religion of god (or whichever deity). The celebrity becomes an idol. The reason may be the alienation and isolation of modern society. We don't have that sense of community in the real world, so we find it online.
...
What are your thoughts on these ideas? Celebrity as Idol; Fandom as Religion; Fansites as Community.

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I'm currently doing a module on religion (religion = one of my other areas of passion because I find it fascinating), and we did briefly touch on the idea of civil or civic religion - which would encompass things such as fandom, football clubs, and even countries. There are definitely parallels between fandom and religion if you take a wider definition of it. I wrote this over at the forums for that module, regarding fandom and its similarities to religion:

We do have a set of shared beliefs stemming from our common interest; it does pervade the lives of diehard fans to a fairly high degree; we have our own lingo, our own set of sacred objects, our own significant dates that we celebrate online, our rites of passage, our own important fandom people, our attempts at converting the unenlightened heathen, the wars between fandoms (Star Trek vs Star Wars goes back decades; barging in on each others conventions, vandalism, other awesome stuff like that) and our own apologetics when it comes to defending our fandom against those who attack it. Plus a very strong sense of belonging that results from those.

So yes, that feeling of belonging or acceptance is another part of it. For me I'm not an outgoing person and I definitely prefer writing to talking, and so the Internet and fandom has been a way for me to engage socially with people on a level that I'm comfortable with.

If you haven't read it, there's this article entitled 'Star Trek Fandom as Religious Phenomena' which you might be interested in: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0SOR/is_n1_v55/ai_15383489/

I've probably spent more time in theological debates than in fandom. Maybe it's just me, because I like debates. I do find a parallel between those and the ones I have about Keanu's acting ability, although it helps a lot that people are generally agreed that Keanu does exist. In a way fandom was my break for the times when theological debates got too heavy - I'm currently in the midst of a very prolific e-mail debate with a Young Earth Creationist. His previous reply was 8,000 words long, and my response was over 4,000. Keanu fandom does give me an area to chill and get temporary respite from all that.

But fandom would differ from religion mainly in how it does not claim to offer any answers to life. For celebrity fandoms, I don't think that fans - although there are probably exceptions - consider the celeb in question to be a deity of any sort. We do acknowledge that he or she is human and nothing more, and much of the fandom is built upon the image that they present and the work that they have done, rather than they themselves as people. That's my opinion, at least, though others may disagree.

I think this might also reinforce the (largely Christian) notion that humans were created for worship; it seems to be an innate part of human nature to do so, and for those without traditional religion, many find this desire fulfilled in fandom.

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Some researchers have suggested that fan websites create a (sense of) community that transcends physical and geographical barriers. Fans are united in their fandom for their particular celebrity, thus creating a virtual community. I would say that the Keanu SWAT team is a good example of this.

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Yes, I think that fan websites with forums (as well as forums about hobbies and interests) create a definite sense of community. Some of these forums also spill into real life, for example a couple of webforums about some of my hobbies: gardening and chickens (I have 10 hens, 11 chicks and a big, black cock (hee hee!) named Lucifer jr.). Through these sites I have met people who shared their plants and flowers with eachother, and chicken enthusiasts who were happy to offer me a huge brahma rooster (the biggest cock I've ever seen!) in exchange for two guineafowl, as well as three stupid turkeys for six white sussexes. These sites have a large percentage of active users, and they also try to meet in real life.

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I am curious. Where in the world are you? {snip} Have any of you met in person?{/quote]

I think that using fan websites/forums aren't so much a goal as a means to get to share one's interest with others. I have met fellow Ke fans in Chicago and London, and we had dinner together and saw Dogstar in concert. I myself am in Northern Europe. As a Kiss fan (this was before the Internet) I had lots of penpals all over the world, and I was once at a Kiss concert in Albany, NY, where I met people I knew from Germany, Sweden, England, Italy, Canada, etc etc. It was like a United Nations meeting. The Kiss Army, as the fans called themselves, had a strong community feel to it. I miss that a lot more than being a fan of the band.

[quote]Inkjuldra, thank you for the history of the Keanu fan sites. I suppose Keanu has had fan groups (online or physical) since his first film (1985), or at least since Bill and Ted in 1989. Do you know of people who have been fans since then? There must be fans who have been following him for 20 years. They may have started when they were in (what we would now call) their tweens, and would be in their 30s. It would be interesting to find out some statistics on the continuity of fans.

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When I got on the Internet in 1993-94 and found the wonderful mailing list known as The Garden of Keanadu (we called ourselves Gardeners), I got to know people who had been fans since the 80s. Some of them were in their 30s and 40s, and since the Internet was mostly available at colleges and universities, the Gardeners tended to be well educated and/or working at institutions of higher learning. Some worked for companies that were forward enough to understand the potential of the Internet, and some were simply techno-nerds. I myself had a 28.800 modem when most people had 9.600 modems. My computer cost me 4.600 US$ in 1993, and I sold my beloved motorcycle to buy it. I had to get online - I needed a computer! And one of the first things I typed into the rudimentary search engines of that age was "Keanu". I was thrilled to find so many intelligent fans who shared my interests, and many of them had been active fans for many years. I also found that most of them had a deep respect of Keanu, and they weren't the type who would mob him for his attention. As the Internet became available to everyone, the whole intelligence level seemed to drop...

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Would you say the online community became too unwieldy? Surely the sites such as this one have a community feeling? How big do the Keanu sites get for things to feel impersonal?

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It's not just the size of the communities. It's also the number of new people who join them. It takes time to build a community - to create a common culture, so to speak - and newcomers don't know the local lingo or the culture. Also, the members of the community must follow the unwritten as well as the written rules, and newcomers tend to make the very common blunder of asking newbie questions that have been asked a hundred times before. If the "established" members' discussions in a forum get constantly interrupted by too many clueless newbies who exclaim "Oh, I just LOVE Keanu!! He's SOOOOOO hot!!! Do you think he visits this forum?? Keanu, if you read this, I'm all yours!!!", the community will become fragmented and the growing number of newcomers will eventually drive away the original members. You just don't bother to wade through all the gushing messages to find the one or two that are of interest, and any attempts to start an intelligent discussion will drown in a tsunami of exclamation marks. It's like trying to have a conversation with friens while being surrounded by a mob who shout and cheer and yell at the top of their voices. You get tired of it very soon.

And then there's the trolls. The Usenet fanlists got trolled something awful by a couple of trolls who posted messages almost every day. It's amazing how much time and energy such people will put into ruining fanforums, and they are simply relentless. It's like they have made it their life's work to kill discussion lists and forums. I don't understand those people any more than I understand real-life stalkers. Or papparazzi.

Trolls SUCK. Beyond belief!! There's been a really big problem with them over on LJ, Them and the people who are haters always seem hellbent on ruining things and ruining fun for all us good fans.

I don't understand them either. Or the stalkers or the paparazzi. Especially the latter hounding celebrities nonstop like they do. Famous people are still regular people deep down.

Track back to your dropped question of 'older fans' (how kind of you to resist pointing rudely ;). There are a few of us that I have crossed paths with on the board, some that have followed K for many years, and others like myself that took note of him years ago and only recently came back around.

I don't actually think of myself as a fan, at least not in most ways, since I visit only two of the boards regularly and the one Ani mentioned, CK, very rarely, I'm not a collector, have seen way less than half of his work (and that due only to Apprentice's insistence). I do appreciate his looks without doubt, but they're not exactly his fault ;). For me personally I think I appreciate who he is in public, and who he seems to be privately more even than his work - his expressions and body language fascinate me (I can't help it, I trained dogs for years, it's second nature to watch those things ;).

I took note of Keanu when River's Edge first came out, and decided I liked him, but there was no 'connection' until I stumbled across TheJay's website and read the 'Keanu Reeves Does Not Suck And I can Prove It' article - and it's at that time 8 month old trail of reader commentary. The last time I was there, by the way, it was way slow but not 'dead' ;). Keanu hooks his people and for the most part we're willingly caught.

And I wasn't a 'tween when I saw that first film, I'm nine years and eleven months older than he is ;).

Is this thing you're doing something 'we' are going to get to read?

Both the entry and the comments.

This is truly fantastic.

I used this website and the Keanu SWAT team in my class, when discussing fan devotion. I'm now focussing on my final essay, where I will analyse the relationship between performance and stardom for Keanu Reeves. I'm still formulating arguments, but this thread and this website will definitely play a part. The essay is not due until early November, but you can never start researching too early.

Seer, if my essay is of an acceptable standard, I'll forward it to Anakin and he can see if he wants to add it to his article registry.

Anakin, thank you for the Keanu Vision link. That reference is useful particularly. I would trawl through the other blog posts on that site, but there are so many that it scares me! I will look further at it though.

Keanugirl76

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and I got only the dubbed version

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Actually, my interpretation may be skewed, and there is a flaw in my concept. 1) Many of the world's population speaks English even if they are not from an English-speaking country; 2) I note that I am asking this on an English-speaking forum; 3) voice actors try to mimic the tone of the star whom they are overdubbing, so the 'Whoa' concept would be translated.

What are your thoughts on an international interpretation of Keanu?

On another topic, I watched 'Even Cowgirls Get The Blues' for the first time yesterday. Hmmm. I hope to not have to watch it again. Perhaps the book on which the film was based was good. Keanu was believable in his two scenes, though I was shocked to see him orange-faced with fake tan to make him appear as a Native North American. *shakes head*.

Seer, I forgot to ask

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I think I appreciate who he is in public, and who he seems to be privately more even than his work - his expressions and body language fascinate me

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I used this website and the Keanu SWAT team in my class, when discussing fan devotion.

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Awesome. Any interesting points the others brought up? And any comments on us?

keanugirl76 is from Italy.

One thing I've found interesting is that Keanu's acting seems to be better received in foreign countries (he's received two awards - one from Hungary and one from Germany - for his acting), and I don't know if it's because of the voice dubbing. A lot of criticism of his acting is targetted at his voice, and critics have mentioned how he's a better physical actor than verbal one, so I don't know how big a part that plays.

Also, there's the race aspect seeing as how he's part Asian; you might find this essay interesting: http://www.whoaisnotme.net/articles/2007_1115_que.htm

Apparently there are people who accuse Keanu of being a bad actor because "his eyes are too small". There's also how Asians in general tend to be less expressive than Caucasians. Keanu has a huge Asian fanbase with generally a much better opinion of his acting, though that has been changing with globalisation and the Keanu-can't-act bandwagon spreading.

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On another topic, I watched 'Even Cowgirls Get The Blues' for the first time yesterday. Hmmm. I hope to not have to watch it again. Perhaps the book on which the film was based was good. Keanu was believable in his two scenes, though I was shocked to see him orange-faced with fake tan to make him appear as a Native North American. *shakes head*.

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Also, could someone please explain Trolls a bit more for me?

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And to add to the videos / photos / paparazzi issue - I like to watch photos of Keanu Reeves, just as much as the next fan. BUT I prefer those from photo sessions. Because that's the purpose of a photo session : to give audience a glimpse of the person in front of the camera, in a controlled and set up environment. It's a performance, in itself. The 'subject' agrees with the setting, agrees to perform, even if reluctantly. Then, there are the red carpet photos , arrival at ceremonies / awards, etc. All those are part of the 'public person contract'.
What I will never endorse, not even with a mouse click , are paparazzi photos, videos, etc. Don't haunt him on the driveway, in front of restaurants, in front of his house. neither him, not any other public person. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE , is entitled to their own privacy. I don't want to see photos of Keanu Reeves smoking outside of a restaurant, or puking his breakfast on the side of the road. yes, shit happens. so stop by to offer the man a kleenex, or leave him the heck alone.
again, I will not visit their sites, click on the photos they took, play their videos. I am curious, but not that curious.
and I hope - naively - that if there is less and less demand for their 'merchandise', one day, in a far away utopian future, the paps will just fade away...
I wish ;) :D

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It kind of levels the playing ground a lot. And somehow it makes it harder to be a fan of someone who might have just, for all you know, been that idiot you recently argued with on IMDb. Or some other variant thereof, because we are all equal on the internets.

srsly Ashton Kutcher uses netspeak. if I had encountered him elsewhere not knowing who he was I would not have taken him seriously. Not that I do anyway. Just... yeah. It's weird. Different environment, and the rules change, roles change... We're all fellow basement dwellers here. Doesn't matter if you rule a country or are typing from a jail cell, and on the Internet, the latter may outrank the former in intarwebs status and get to boss him around and call him a noob.

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I think it depends on the celebrity and the chosen form of Internet exposure.
Neil Gaiman has a blog, tweets and so on, and that only improved my opinion of him. He's a writer, needs feedback, and knows how to go about it. He controls the degree of his exposure.

Cody Diablo became famous because of her blog. in the beginning, anyway.

personally, if I'm not impressed by someone's work ( be that films, books, music, you name it ) won't read their blogs just out of curiosity. Usually in my case, it's the work that makes me notice the person, not the other way around.

and even in today's world, with social networks and whatnot, I don't have a blog (well, ok, I have one, but it's in a rather obscure place and it's only destined to be read by a handful of people. it sort of replaces group email ;) ), let alone an account / page on any social network. I'm rather private, in my way, and appreciate people who value their privacy as well.

I think it would be fun to discover I'd argued with Keanu Reeves ( or any other celebrity)over some idiotic triviality at IMDb. But then... I'm always vary of who or what is hiding behind a random username. Out there, you simply never know. Anonymity can be just a mask. trust no one ;)
And I always post as if the whole world would be reading. which is, theoretically at least, true.

... and netspeak or not, I could never take Ashton Kutcher seriously, either. ;)

But Ani's right, with this new, ever-changing, continuously evolving environment, rules and roles do change. it's interesting to watch how ;)

one last thought, though : the over-exposure of the 'new' celebrities has its drawbacks, too. As Lily Allen discovered. I think that after the myspace/facebook/tweeter frenzy, we'll have to expect a wave of withdrawal, of self-censorship...
time will tell. as always ;)

By the way, I enjoyed reading your Hags post on the KR IMDB forum. It made me laugh out loud. (I'm not a fan of writing in txt speak, hence I will not resort to the term lol).

He was orange in Little Buddha, but that made sense as it was a mystical historic reimagining, so could be less realistic. I just found an orange Native North American a bit off-putting. Methinks the spray-tanner picked the wrong hue.

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There's also how Asians in general tend to be less expressive than Caucasians.

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And isn't Keanu half Hawaiian, so technically half-Polynesian rather than half-Asian? Although there is the anthropological argument that Polynesians are descended from Asia, but I digress.

Sorry, I'm thinking as I type again.

It has been suggested that Keanu has an exotic look, which may be the hawaiian/asian part of him; he also can and has played the everyman, average-joe american. Though he is an actor so should be able to play any role. But, looking at the roles where he has played an everyday Joe Bloggs, do you think the exoticism of his look has subverted the role of the everyman?

For instance, Thomas 'Neo' Anderson - an everyday guy who has this secret online identity; perhaps Keanu's exoticism subverts the idea that he is 'normal' so we accept and expect that his character is designed for better things.

Could we then compare the subversion of the everyman to playing the exotic: such as Siddharta in Little Buddha, or the Indian in Even Cowgirls Get The Blues. Keanu can play those roles because of his exoticism, where other everyman, average-joe american actors cannot. (Matt Damon or Brad Pitt couldn't be Siddharta, for example).

I'm going to do a little experiment - again, off the cuff.

KR Roles where he is the everyman but his exoticism subverts his being accepted as the everyman
*Neo/Thomas Anderson - The Matrix
*Constatine (?)

KR Roles where he is the exotic
*Siddarta - Little Buddha
*Julian the Indian - Even Cowgirls Get The Blues

KR Roles where he plays the everyman
*Julian Mercer - Somethings Gotta Give
*Perry Lyman - Thumbsucker
*Conor O'Neil - Hardball
*Shane Falco - The Replacements
... looking at IMDB, most of his characters are The Everyman. (Chain Reaction, Sweet November, The Gift, etc)

But do you think any of those everyman characters are subverted based on his exotic look?

Thank you for this (http://z15.invisionfree.com/WINM_Forums/index.php?showtopic=189&st=0). And I am about to read the Asian article; it may help me to prepare for my discussion tomorrow on Star and National Identity, although I don't believe Keanu represents one country.

it's not just the looks, it's the mannerisms and attitude which define the everyman. listening to him speak, watching him move made me not notice he has eyes like apostrophes ;)
( which he doesn't , actually. )