WINM Forums :: The Films of Keanu Reeves :: Constantine

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Constantine
Anakin McFly
2014-09-17 21:43

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Ps, i also heard that he loves The Matrix

Yep, it's his favourite movie, apparently!

But I think he also insulted Keanu's Constantine at one point.

Oh - did you ever do GISHWHES? I took part in 2011 when it first started. :D

neaura
2014-09-17 22:45


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Oh, i didn't know about Constantine but i i guess people have different views :-). I'm willing to cut him some slack, he being so awesome n all and he still likes The Matrix

I haven't taken part in that, i do want to, atleast next year. I missed the announcement cause of health issues. Wasn't as tuned. Guess it got over on the 9th of last month. It's such a cute attempt isn't it? How did it go for you?

I remember seeing him in Charmed first! One of the reruns here. God! He was so sweet!

Anakin McFly
2014-09-18 09:59

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The first GISHWHES wasn't as epic (or difficult) as this one, so it didn't really stretch me as much or get me to do things as outrageous as some of the later ones would have. But it was fun enough. For the most recent one I helped three teams fulfill the item where they had to get a published scifi author to write a story about Misha, the Queen of England and an Elopus (GISHWHES mascot); GISHWHES had gotten into some trouble after participants harassed various celebrity authors en masse and were kind of mean to them, so I wanted to help reduce that a little.
neaura
2014-09-18 12:09


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I did not follow it in the beginning but I do know about the outrageous things in the list :D, Considering there is practically no one I can team up with in my general vicinity except for my cousin, I suppose I would be put in some random team as they do. I was just wondering how I would go about doing some of the stuff in the list, but ya it should be loads of fun and am glad you enjoyed it!!

It is great that what started as some PR stunt transformed into this, thanks to Misha and it is also lovely that they attached RAOK with it. What I am hoping though is for it to not lose focus on the fundamental objective and become more about, trips to places and grand gifts. RAOK is a sweet attempt and I am just hoping that this would be a crazy yet beneficial extension of that

MmeRenard
2014-10-02 19:32


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I was just reading the character profiles in the library and thinking about just how much I want to see another Constantine FILM with Keanu. I don't like to hate any work sight unseen, but I HATE the idea of the TV series. Keanu OWNS this character, maybe his most perfect embodiment, essence of any character - dark, sarcastic, brooding but ultimately loving.

disclaimer: I'm not actually preaching and don't mean to offend anybody. I respect and embrace all belief systems that are based on what HH Dalai Lama calls "the good heart"

As a follower of Christ's teachings - note that I did not say "Christian" because I'm so pissed off at what that means way too frigging often - I LOVE that Francis Lawrence, Keanu, and apparently everyone involved in the film took the spiritual aspect quite literally. To build a whole film around the understanding that evil is quite real, and that the denial of evil as a force is evil's greatest tool, is extremely profound and wise in my opinion (also not at all unlike The Devil's Advocate, which has the same premise).

It is not hard and perhaps not inaccurate to see addiction as "possession." It is not hard and perhaps not inaccurate to see the forces at work in rapacious capitalism and global politics as forces of evil.

All of that also posits the existence of good as a force, one to which all of us, like Constantine , can contribute every single day, in ways that are often small and sometimes bigger. Keanu reminds us, even almost nagging at times for those of us who see it (Man Of Tai Chi), that art can illuminate and has that responsibility.

More Constantine! Keanu! Francis Lawrence! yes!!!

LucaM
2014-10-02 19:55


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See, this is the one and only problem I have with this movie: the heavy-handed Catholic brush strokes in the script. Because the original comics were nothing like that. To quote ckage, comics Constantine was NOT a heaven lackey.

I'm with Angela on this. 'People are evil, Mr. Constantine. People.'.
We're all responsible for our acts, deeds and decisions.


And it's Warner who produces and releases the tv series, so I really doubt they are interested in making a second movie....

MmeRenard
2014-10-02 20:03


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Luca, I totally get what you're saying and largely agree, although it may not sound that way. What I'm getting at is hard to articulate. Even the Dalai Lama says "we're all poor sinners" and I'm sure he doesn't mean that in any literal Catholic way. Beyond religion, there is an understanding of right and wrong, of good and evil. It really doesn't have anything to do with being a "heaven lackey" - in the film, Constantine ends up doing the right thing because he cares, he has a good heart in spite of it all.

We are absolutely responsible for our acts, deeds and decisions. But to the extent that we are unaware or uncaring about the consequences of those, we are not working for good. "The problem is choice."

All of this is VERY personal and I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to agree with me, but it's how I see it. I do think the filmmakers took this worldview seriously, whether or not it's their own belief system. I like seeing this subject matter taken seriously.

LucaM
2014-10-02 20:16


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It really doesn't have anything to do with being a "heaven lackey"

oh, but it does... remember the first conversation between Constantine and Gabriel, in the church? He was trying to buy his way into heaven. Buy, not earn.

And he earns it only when he makes an altruistic sacrifice 'for the girl'. When he chooses to save Isabel's soul, not his own. And no, it wasn't a con. (Another difference from the comics; movie Constantine is a much nobler soul than comics Constantine). This is the movie character's development arch; much subtler and understated than Angela's. The problem - and salvation- was choice, indeed. In all three movies ;) (Matrix, Constantine, MOTC).



allhailkingjack
2014-10-02 21:19


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And no, it wasn't a con.

I really had to spend some time working this out for myself, wondering if John engineered the whole thing because he knew he'd be able to flip ol' Lou the bird on his way up. But on multiple rewatches I came to the same conclusion you did. Not that you don't know any of this, but I'm writing it anyway because I love analyzing this movie. :)

I think he saw a last shot for his life to mean something, to save one soul from torment and ease the pain of someone else he was coming to care about and knew he wouldn't have a future with. After the trade is done, Keanu gives every indication by look, voice, and posture that John is now completely without hope and has accepted the coming reality of his eternal torment. Stubbing out his cig in his own blood really sealed the deal for me on his motivations. That's one of the most strikingly bleak visuals I've ever seen, and I think it says John was just done on every level.

I'm curious about this, though:


This is the movie character's development arch; much subtler and understated than Angela's.

I thought John's arc was pretty clear from start to finish. What did you think Angela's was, or was meant to be? Simply the idea of her embracing her gift after ignoring it for so long?

In terms of the movie's general morality, I get frustrated with the overly literalistic interpretation of the Church's teachings. I believe it's been the case for some time in the Catholic church that patients adjudicated mentally ill, as we know Isabel was from the fact of her involuntary confinement, cannot be considered to have committed suicide because they lacked the capacity to make a rational decision and therefore didn't sin. Then again, I never understood why Izzy's death was considered suicide by anyone - she did the noble thing and jumped to stop the demon from taking possession of her, correct? So even if the Church thought she was condemned to hell, God should've had something else to say in the matter.

I hate to see anyone else playing Constantine, as I think it's far and away Keanu's finest work and a new guy in the role is a sad reminder that Keanu never got the credit he deserved. However, on a strictly shallow note, I don't know that I'd want him to reprise the role since he's aged enough that the Constantine I know from 2005 would look noticeably different, which I do not want.


The problem - and salvation- was choice, indeed. In all three movies ;)

What a great insight. Very well spotted.

LucaM
2014-10-02 23:22


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jack - in the comics, Constantine 'dies' at 50. And he's the only character (aside from Frank Miller's Batman) who actually ages as the comics are written. But after Vertigo sent Hellblazer back to mainstream DC and Milligan had John killed, the New 52 series are having the character written in his early 30s. Damn DC is ruining Constantine :((((



What did you think Angela's was, or was meant to be? Simply the idea of her embracing her gift after ignoring it for so long?

Mostly that, but not 'simply' that. She's not only embracing her gift; she's also making peace with her sister. (Tell them, Angie. Tell them that you see them too. But I lied. I said " I don't see anything" ) Angela has to accept responsibility for her past choices, too, and to seek her own redemption. And when she finally does, bam! That scene of the exploding bathtub is not there just for Rachel to look pretty when wet. ;)




I think he saw a last shot for his life to mean something, to save one soul from torment and ease the pain of someone else he was coming to care about and knew he wouldn't have a future with. After the trade is done, Keanu gives every indication by look, voice, and posture that John is now completely without hope and has accepted the coming reality of his eternal torment. Stubbing out his cig in his own blood really sealed the deal for me on his motivations. That's one of the most strikingly bleak visuals I've ever seen, and I think it says John was just done on every level.

THAT. Thank you for putting it into words :)

Anakin McFly
2014-10-02 23:27

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I'm loving this discussion.


the New 52 series are having the character written in his early 30s.

Alternate universe.

LucaM
2014-10-02 23:33


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Alternate universe with piss-poor writing :(((
allhailkingjack
2014-10-02 23:43


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Angela has to accept responsibility for her past choices, too, and to seek her own redemption. And when she finally does, bam! That scene of the exploding bathtub is not there just for Rachel to look pretty when wet. ;)

You mean like a baptism...a rebirth.

Wow, I just...wow.

Damn, woman, you are good.

MmeRenard
2014-10-02 23:46


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Uh huh. Baptism. Because that almost never happens in Keanu's films.
allhailkingjack
2014-10-02 23:53


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Uh huh. Baptism. Because that almost never happens in Keanu's films.

Ouch. I guess I was slow on the uptake there, but still...that one's gonna leave a mark.

MmeRenard
2014-10-03 02:09


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oh, Jack, I didn't mean any harm, very sorry if that's how it sounded! I have just always found that as a theme to be really funny and kind of wonderful. My favorite example is in Dracula, where the wimpy solicitor becomes someone entirely different.
allhailkingjack
2014-10-03 08:19


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Ah, I see. No worries, then. Thanks for making me feel somewhat less slow on the uptake. :)
LucaM
2014-10-03 14:21


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So even if the Church thought she was condemned to hell, God should've had something else to say in the matter.

Oh, but you see, if Isabel wouldn't have truly been in hell - as Constantine confirmed to Angela- Angela wouldn't have felt guilty and pursued the matter till the very end, and the second half of the movie wouldn't have happened...
Mysterious ways, remember ? ;)

ckage
2014-10-03 23:11


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EVERYBODY GET BACK, I SAW MISHA FIRST!

*notices thread is days old*


neaura
2014-10-03 23:47


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@ckage: :-) :-) sure! You are first! (Am sure you don't need me to say that, just emphasizing the point). Just sharing my love. Anyway lthat's the beauty of love, it can only be multiplied not divided.

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