WINM Forums :: The Films of Keanu Reeves :: Constantine

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Constantine
allhailkingjack
2014-10-03 23:57


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Oh, but you see, if Isabel wouldn't have truly been in hell - as Constantine confirmed to Angela - Angela wouldn't have felt guilty and pursued the matter till the very end, and the second half of the movie wouldn't have happened...

Mysterious ways, remember ? ;)

I know. And I can forgive it in the brilliant light of Keanu's portrayal. :)

ckage
2014-10-04 00:08


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@neaura
dclary2014-11-27 03:34:36


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As far as "mysterious ways" goes... for me, the brilliance of this movie, and what really turned me from a fan to a raving fan was Constantine's prayer. He gets to the second act climax, Chaz goes down, the true villain is revealed, and he realizes the truth: he can't do this alone. He is out of his league.

That he would turn to prayer seems so perfect, because it represents a true breakdown of his outer shell and a return -- not to faith -- but at least an acknowledgement that there are powers higher than the ones roaming the earth, and only they could help.

The prayer itself works, and the answer God gives him? Brilliant on so many levels (although I will say, based on viewings of the deleted scenes that they clearly struggled with how to set up what came next organically).

It's one of the best "religious" scenes in all of cinema, as far as I am concerned.

Misty2014-11-28 15:35:24


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Agree. That final scene also touched something inside of me, since it reminds me of a prayer which more or less like this, "... as I don't deserve your heaven, but I don't think I can stand your hell either". I almost cried when I saw Constantine bleeding and laying hopeless to end his words with a soft, "Please". This hardboiled man was really fragile.
MmeRenard
2014-11-28 20:28:15


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Hi, dclary and Misty! I really agree with your two posts. John's prayer and sacrifice is brilliant and certainly an outstanding "religious" scene. Very powerful. And EMOTIONAL!
LucaM
2014-11-29 00:34:35


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Yes, that scene is all that. And yet, it's completely out of character for the comics Constantine... and that is my only issue with the movie. By itself, it works perfectly. But with that scene, it betrays the original source. The 'real' John Constantine of the comics would have never done that. The sacrifice? Yes. The prayer? Never.

Adding that scene was a slick - and sick- move from whichever scriptwriter or producer is responsible for it... it made Constantine mainstream, while in the comics he was anything but.

MmeRenard
2014-11-29 00:55:14


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I like that the filmmakers - writer, director, actors - respected the religious context but not really in any orthodox way.
That said, Luca,I totally get what you're saying - I like the religious context, you don't, and that's cool.
LucaM
2014-11-29 01:13:09


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But it's got nothing to do with me liking the religious context or not. It's got everything to do with the fact that it wasn't presented this way in the comics=the original source.
John Constantine of the comics was never - never, not even in the uninspired and tepid writing of Peter Milligan, the writer who closed the Hellblazer series- religious. He knew (to quote movie Gabriel), he bargained his own soul to save the soul of their friends, but he never ever prayed.

The filmmakers might have respected the Catholic religious context, but the comics the movie is based on never did.

And while I love the movie, and Keanu's Constantine... what the scriptwriters and producers did to the original character is not fair. It's almost like an ironic betrayal.

The same thing happened to Blade Runner. It's a superb movie. One of the best ever. But the liberties taken when adapting PKD's story for that movie were extreme. The original story is... another world.


MmeRenard
2014-11-29 01:21:20


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I know, I get all of that, but I never read the comics, wasn't a fan before, and I just like the film.

On the other hand, I did read and was already a fan of Blade Runner and I don't like the movie.

As someone says: "Chacun a son gout!"

LucaM
2014-11-29 01:23:45


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As someone says: "Chacun a son gout!"

True, that :)

MmeRenard
2014-11-29 01:25:17


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And if Keanu hadn't already said it, I would have expected him to say it. It's just Keanu-like :-)
Misty2014-11-29 02:30:51


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Wheew ... I feel far waaay back behind for resource materials, had never read Hellblazer :( but maybe this time it suits me, as someone says, "ignorance is a bliss"
LucaM
2014-11-29 02:43:47


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The first five times I watched Constantine, didn't know a thing about Hellblazer, either :D
Actually, didn't know a thing about comics. All I have read before were Pif et Hercule :D oh, and Dr.Justice http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docteur_Justice (there's no english page for him :D )

But then got intrigued and curious which 'ghosts' John was talking about (I don't need another ghost following me around) and picked up the Hellblazer comics. Read 234 of them in three weeks :D After that, there was no turning back :D

Misty2014-11-29 02:54:25


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kudos for you (and for the rest of Keanu SWAT Team) the true dedicated fans; with the research, analysis, and all :) on the other hand, I am still sort of couch potato fan ... with the heart for a good entertainment, he he.

thanks for the link, google translate would be handy :P

LucaM
2014-11-29 03:04:59


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Couch is good :) it's safe :) I tumbled down the white rabbit's hole, going 'whee!' - and still falling :D but it's lots and lots of fun :D

Discovered lots and lots of great things along this tumbling: books, movies, music bands, fellow fans and SWAT teamsters and online friends and. Learned to watch, to see, to notice, to understand, to listen, to make connections and associations of ideas.
As Ani says, fandom is educational ;)

Misty2014-11-29 03:29:14


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I hold the urge to repeat your words, but they are all interesting ... especially the "association of ideas" and "educational fandom"
axie
2014-11-29 05:09:47


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The filmmakers might have respected the Catholic religious context, but the comics the movie is based on never did.

It didn't respect Catholic religious context either. But movies like this [stand alone..] never do. They want to use the idea of catholic exorcism, toss in a priest and say DEMONS.
exorcism and demons are not topics in Mass - EVER. Though if one dug through the Vatican Library there would be lots of it.

What drives me nuts are all the other Christian sects that want to expand upon the idea of demons [moving away from the original topic] as in catholic MYTHology to make it mainstream while condemning Catholics.

Why does KR have such a large God-Squad following anyway? Second in the fandom are pretend-Buddhists - those who warp it to suit their own personal needs. In a way to pretend they are some how more 'enlightened' than others? Western abuse of Buddhism is maddening. Those with the largest egos seem to do it, then talk as if they have no ego? I. just. don't. get. it. /rant off



MmeRenard
2014-11-29 05:34:59


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Whoa, what just happened?

I like the way the movie deals with religion and the supernatural / spiritual.
It is open to the possibility that good and evil exist, not just individually but in a broader context. It's more Jungian or archetypal than it is religious or dogmatic.

For example, before the diagnostic "tools" existed, things like addiction / compulsion / obsession were sometimes considered "possession" - really, is that so inaccurate? it's simply terminology. And while I haven't read the comics mush or recently, Constantine IS an exorcist, his world is the religious / supernatural, there are demons in that world - isn't that the point? the movie didn't just throw all of that cosmology in there.

What's wrong with people who consider ourselves somewhat religious being fans of Keanu? And who gets to judge if someone is a "real" Buddhist? would Buddha do that? would Christ? not in my understanding.

Nobody here should be expected to agree about religion - it's not the point. You're welcome to your views, as I am welcome to mine. Thank you.

axie
2014-11-29 06:06:25


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*sigh*
It wasn't directed at anyone in particular.

since the farthest down I read was from where I quoted.

For background, I have noticed that KR has a vocally religious Christian following; I refer to it as the God-Squad. Which is light hearted. Some are perfectly nice others not so much.

But the Buddhist thing I noticed going back 20 years ago. CA and NY has so many that wear it like a *brand* rather than truly following it. Again, refers to no one in particular.

I am catholic but not vocally active in the church or the dogma of it. Faith is personal and since living in the south noticed the growing need even fore *here* to hyper-evangelize to people.

axie
2014-11-29 06:17:21


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Nobody here should be expected to agree about religion - it's not the point. You're welcome to your views, as I am welcome to mine. Thank you.

You are welcome.
Please allow me to have them too and to express them, too. Thank you.
I really don't even know what your views are Mme.

My religious opinions, how I saw it in the movie and from HW in general when it comes to catholicism, from how many vocally Christian fans he has... I am truly curious as to his appeal to them since he's never expressed being very religious at all, not like many other actors who are vocal about their faith and even their politics. He steers clear of both - most of the time.

Example, I can understand a Democrat being a fan of Clooney even if they didn't care for his work. I think it would be a bit rarer to find conservatives to be a fan of *him* but not his work.

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